Question:
I am doing my year-end review and looking at some of my expenses. The big jump in fuel makes me wonder if I might be better off selling my big equipment and downsizing everything. I do new systems (ATUs, sand mounds and conventional stone and pipe) and a lot of repairs. I do most of it with a full-size rubber-tired backhoe, which I pull with a tandem dump truck.
I spend a few thousand every year renting or hiring small equipment. It has always worked well for me, but I know that doing the same work with something I can pull behind a pickup truck wouldn’t take a whole lot longer, and I would probably burn way less fuel and spend less on maintenance. So I’m wondering how many installers use big equipment, and how many use small equipment. Any thoughts?
Answers:
I install mounds and at-grades, and I use a rubber-tired backhoe with a skid-steer. I use the backhoe for plowing and digging and put everything else on the skid-steer with over-the-tire tracks.
The skid-steer costs more per hour than the rubber-tired machine. It uses 2.4 to 3.5 gallons per hour if I use it hard. It takes too long digging tank holes with a small machine. It depends on what type of soil you’re digging. I have used small excavators in hard clay and added days to the job.
I would not use rubber-tired equipment for any backfilling or movement of material on the septic area. The health department inspector talks about soil compaction with tires. When I used the skid-steer without tracks, they complained some, but they would let a guy use a 973 Cat crawler and compare the two.
- I use a rubber-tired backhoe to install and repair, and a track skid-steer to backfill. I have yet to figure out how you dig a level trench (side to side) with a mini-excavator on a sloping site.
- I think it’s only a matter of time and no rubber-tired machines will be allowed to install septic systems. Ohio put this regulation on hold, but I think it will apply in another year or so. They don’t think we are smart enough not to drive over the trenches and compact the soil.
- I’m not sure what rules the previous poster is referring to, but the Ohio rules rescinded in June 2007 did not say anything about the use of rubber tires, nor have I heard any discussion about their use being banned in any of the rules discussions. (Posted by an Ohio registered sanitarian)
- Regulators know that some equipment owners simply do not know better than to drive over trenches. This knowledge is in part why regulators regulate. Regulators and professional installers also know that regulations will not stop inappropriate activities.
Every day, a few new people get into the installation business. Many know how to operate a machine, but not how to protect a site or install a system in the most benign manner. Many people in this business do not voluntarily attend training.
Presumably, almost all in this business are aware of the regulations they are expected to follow, and a large number no doubt follow them without an appreciation of why they exist. Hopefully, they learn to do it correctly while they comply.
- In my area of southern Ontario, the ground conditions change dramatically from heavy clay to sand. Over the past few years, we have just about eliminated rubber-tired machines. On large systems with lots of room, we use our Cat 320 excavator. We level most of the imported fill with this. We have a 14-foot blade on a quick-attach coupler, so very little compaction is done.
Last year we purchased a new Cat 305 excavator for the small sites, but we needed something to carry material. We had to purchase a Cat 257 skid-steer on rubber tracks. We tried to rent when needed, but it really did not work out. You could never get a machine when you needed it.
This year we purchased a 7-foot, six-way blade for the skid-steer, so we are seeing if that works. In my opinion, the smaller machines are the way to go. But we have larger machines to fall back on.
- I’m in Illinois. I agree installers need certification or training before they go nuts on a backhoe. I have had inspectors bring a new installer or inspector on my job to train on installation. It’s a lot different from reading a book and hands-on training. It should be done like the plumber’s license.
There are a lot of judgment calls made by an installer that fall back on experience. I’m no expert, and anyone can make a mistake, but I have a problem with seeing the same mistake made over and over. If I see or hear about something an inspector is not catching, I let him or her know where to look and what to look for.
There are a lot of people installing in my area who are not in the septic business and just got a license to save money on building a house or to give a package deal on excavating work on jobs.
